"The last six months of development aren't very fun." Interview with indie game dev Kyle Thompson

Kyle Thompson is the “solo-ish” developer (his words) of three great indie games, most recently, Crypt Custodian, which he will talk about briefly in this interview, but was one of my personal favorite games of 2024. Over the last week, I got the chance to exchange some questions through email for him to answer.

Last week, during the Top Hat Studios showcase, Thompson shared the first glimpse at his fourth game, a yet-to-be-titled entry in what looks like a continuing line of great Metroidvanias. Thompson has released three games over the course of about four years and does not seem to be slowing down. We can expect to learn more about his next game this summer, and I am personally looking forward to it.

Without further ado, let’s get started:

Matt Buckley: First of all, thank you for taking the time to answer some questions. After loving Crypt Custodian last year, I was very excited to hear that you are working on something new during this week’s Top Hat Studios showcase.

If you don’t mind, could you introduce yourself to our audience? Who are you? How did you get into the business of making games?

Kyle Thompson: Hey! I’m Kyle Thompson, I’m a game developer who makes cute/chill metroidvanias. I recently released Crypt Custodian, which is a top-down metroidvania about a cat forced to be the afterlife’s janitor. Before that, I made Islets and Sheepo. I made flash games as a hobby as a teenager, but then stopped making games for 10 years. I got the itch to try again and ended up making Sheepo. I realized how much I still loved making games, and everything else followed!

MB: What is your experience with creating games? Would you call yourself a solo developer? What led you to make games the way that you do?

KT: Yeah, I’d say “solo-ish,” since my brother makes the music, and there are some things I don’t do (porting, translating, QA, and playtesting). But I write all the code, make all the art, and do everything else. I really enjoy learning new skills, and being able to bounce around makes development feel fresh and enjoyable to me.

MB: The idea of a solo developer has become more common in recent years. Is this a sign that game development is becoming more accessible to a broader audience? Would you encourage others to try developing a game on their own?

KT: Yeah, I definitely think so. There are so many resources to learn now, and I think it is easier than ever to get started. Working on a project on your own is a great way to figure out what aspects of development you are good at and enjoy. It can be overwhelming at first, but it also feels so rewarding when you’re able to start getting something blocked out.

MB: It’s no secret that you love Metroidvanias. What about this genre has inspired you to continue to innovate? Do you have any favorites from the genre or games that inspired you (other than your own)? Or perhaps games from outside the genre?

KT: I started playing a couple of freeware metroidvanias as a teenager, and they immediately became my favorite games. Specifically, “An Untitled Story” by Maddy Thorson (who went on to work on Hollow Knight, of course, is great too, but I am frustratingly bad at it!

MB: I read a great interview you had last year with a French site called Des Clics et des Lettres, in which you talked about your focused development process and avoiding the pitfalls of perfectionism. Crypt Custodian launched last August, and you are already planning to share more about your next title this Summer. How do you manage to keep yourself so organized and focused?

KT: I probably spend a lot less time prototyping than I should, and I generally just keep constantly building. You often hear in gamedev that the last 10% of any task takes as much time as the first 90% (which I think is true). I think I am often totally OK to leave some aspects stuck at that 90%. For more important things like player movement, general mechanics, game feel, etc., I’ll always aim for 100%. But if it’s something that isn’t super important, then I’m happy to leave it at “good enough.” Which maybe sounds lazy, but it would be easy to spend eternity tweaking and fixing a game and never get it to perfection.

Another thing is that I stagger my games development, so I started my new game a couple months before Crypt Custodian was released. And I started Crypt Custodian a couple months before Islets was released, etc. This was mainly done because the last six months of development aren’t very fun, and are generally devoid of any creative tasks, so I always feel the urge to start tinkering with something new.

MB: Since 2020, you’ve released a game every two years. This seems like a reasonably quick turnaround compared to other game developers. How often, if ever, do you have an idea, start working on it, and then decide it's not the right project for this moment?

KT: At the beginning of development, I’ll usually experiment a bit. Crypt Custodian had two scrapped ideas before it made it to where it is now. The first involved bullet hell projectiles that could be paused and interacted with in a way similar to pachinko or a brick breaker game. The idea made sense in my head, since the patterns are similar, but it just felt unfun and too based on randomness. The second idea was similar to the final idea I went with, but involved a vacuum instead of a broom, and using the vacuum to suck up ghosts. Until a friend reminded me that it is the same idea as Luigi's Mansion and Ghostbusters. Somehow, my brain had ignored that up to that point.

MB: From the small teaser revealed during this week’s Top Hat Studios showcase, unless I’m mistaken, it looks like the next game will return to a more classic, 2D, side-scrolling Metroidvania, as opposed to the top-down view of Crypt Custodian. What was the process in that design choice? Is a design choice like this something you know going in, or something you realize a game needs as you work on it?

KT: Yeah, it will be a side-scroller again! I tend to start struggling with ideas about 3 of the way through development, and getting the last few areas and bosses figured out is always especially difficult for me. That is a big reason why I switched to top-down for Crypt Custodian, since I had trouble imagining coming up with a bunch of new mechanics, areas, bosses, etc., for a side scroller right after making two of them in a 3-year span. And that is the same reason I’m moving back to a side scroller for this one. I feel a bit refreshed with ideas and more well-equipped to tackle it. I really enjoyed the perspective shift in Crypt Custodian, and I’ll likely use it again someday. But I think I would just need a few years in between for some ideas to start popping back in.

MB: What lessons do you carry with you from game to game? Does working on one game inspire another? Or do you see them as separate projects?

KT: I’ve been trying to focus on one or two core improvements on each game, and then bring those improvements onto each one after. For Crypt Custodian, the big improvements I wanted to make over Islets were in the exploration and customization. Islets was mainly laid out as long, pathy areas connected together, and there wasn’t a lot of room to change up your build. In Crypt Custodian, the map is a lot more interconnected, and areas can be completed in so many different orders. There’s also a lot more ways to change up your build and customize the gameplay.

With my new game, the two new focuses are in mobility/movement upgrades and world-building. One regret in Crypt Custodian is that most of the abilities you gain don’t affect the movement apart from very specific areas. In the new game, each ability is unique, not as obvious, and very useful constantly throughout the game. As for world-building, I wanted to focus on there being a cohesive background for the game world where the areas connect in a way that makes sense and with more optional lore.

MB: Burnout is a serious problem, especially in game development. Is there anything you do in your free time to take a break? Any other creative outlets?

KT: Yeah, since I’m at the computer all day, I’ve been trying to take up hobbies that get me away. I live near a lot of beautiful nature, so I go hiking and kayaking quite a bit. I bought a field recorder recently and take that with me sometimes to record sounds and sometimes use them in the games. I have no musical talent, but I love music and go to a bunch of shows. My husband and I go to concerts most weeks. Usually dive bar local band shows.

MB: What is your favorite part about making a game?

KT: It cycles all the time. I think that’s why I love working on a bunch of different aspects of development. Some days I really want to spend all day drawing. And some days I want to code a new system. And some days I feel a bit tired and just want to do something where I can turn my brain off, like decorating rooms or some data entry type tasks. The best moments when making a game, though, are when things come together. I’ll spend so long working on a bunch of disconnected pieces, unsure if they will have any coherence when they are put together. And then finally, at some point, things start to click, and I’ll get a big chunk of the game connected together and playable all at once. Those are the few moments that feel as if I am a stranger playing my own game, and it is always the most fun feeling in development.

MB: Thank you, Kyle, for taking the time to answer any or all of these questions. I sincerely look forward to learning more about your next game!